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 Post subject: Kylian Mbappe
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:34 pm 
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Apparently, there's a slight more whiff here than the usual Daily Mail idiocy:

>L'equipe report a 100 euro bid for Mbappe
>The Telegraph report bid rejected
>David Ornstein, the pretty reliable Mouth of Arsenal, neither confirms nor denies

I don't think we'd get him in a million years, but if the bid was real, it raises interesting questions.

It must be twenty years of Wenger, but my first thought was, do we really want to spend that much on one player? :lol: Let alone an 18 year old, even if some would like to think he's going to be better than Messi.

If true, though, it would suggest that we have a lot more money to spend and a willingness to spend it, than has ever been reported. I remain skeptical, as is the Arsenal fan's duty.


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 Post subject: Re: Kylian Mbappe
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:27 am 
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It's all posturing. The typical warchest stories to appease fans and then a large bid for Mbappe but a bid I don't think Arsenal ever expected Monaco to accept (I believe Real Madrid have already had a larger bid rejected anyway). It gives the impression we are ready to spend big but really, we're not. This is to placate fans with some "look we can change, please renew your season tickets and be happy" rubbish that doesn't really wash.

I think we will sign a 30-40 million pound player but it would be someone like a Mahrez, rather than the stellar centre forward we need. Why don't they seriously go for a Aubameyang or Belotti with that kind of money if they have it? Surely that kind of money would certainly get their foot in the door with those two, unlike with Mbappe if Arsenal were serious about spending that kind of money. Which in my opinion they are not.


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 Post subject: Re: Kylian Mbappe
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Tubz, while I agree it could be seen as a tactic to show we could spend big, could we see a situation where we showed interest in Mbappe last year and he showed signs that he would want to move to Arsenal in the future and Wenger maybe sees it as with his Monaco connections that Mbappe would seriously try to force a move to Arsenal over Real Madrid.

If you look at the pros and cons of it, he would get more playing time at Arsenal than Real Madrid, but then Madrid is the team that has just won the Champions League and has Zidane in charge.

Belotti would be a brilliant buy, but I also think that Morata would be too.

Rumours at the moment are Mahrez and Turan, no mention of strikers, we need more than that surely especially when Turan is over £20m and Mahrez is £40m


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 Post subject: Re: Kylian Mbappe
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:03 pm 
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Mbappe isn't going to force a move, he doesn't need to. He is playing for a strong team, in the Champions League, he will play all the time for them and he seems grounded enough to know that he could go to another club and not play. Also Monaco don't need the money and can just hold out to let teams outbid each other.

I would be astounded if Arsenal have bid flat out £87 million for Mbappe, nothing in the past has shown that Arsenal would place a bid like this for any player let alone a player who is, at this point, immense (seriously immense) potential and talent but not the finished article. Even if they did, as I mentioned I think they knew it would fail but it attempts to show some substance behind all that rubbish Gazidis and Wenger were spewing out at Wenger's contract renewal ceremony.

But it sets up perfectly a summer of general idleness that we have been so used to. Stories about a war chest at the start of the summer to get fans excited. Wenger saying we need 2-3 top players to make the squad better. This rumoured interest in the press about top targets that never comes to fruition but keeps the fans hopeful. Yet time and time again we see players that could improve this squad going elsewhere and we are sat here thinking "why aren't we in for them?".

Then towards the end of the summer Arsenal have not moved whilst serious teams snap up most of the proper talent available that would improve us (Morata, Bellotti, Aubameyang for example) and then as the season is close to starting and Arsenal have not reinforced, all of a sudden Wenger is adamant in pre-season press conferences "that the talent to improve the side was not available", like Mbappe is the only player in the whole world that would improve Arsenal. But then injuries force his hand to buy in a couple of players to supplement rather than improve the squad. So we end up adding 2-3 players but more because we have been forced to add something rather than nothing.

As I mentioned, I could see us adding a Mahrez to the squad, a good player who improves the squad but not necessarily the first team and perhaps then a couple of lesser known players to the squad later in the summer to help. And I don't have a problem with buying lesser known players or cheaper players if they are good, the price tag isn't everything. But we are crying out for a real top class, ready to go, mobile striker that would boost our first team and they will cost money. Not just for what we need for the first team but also the excitement it brings to the fans and the lift it gives the players (hell it might give us a chance of keeping Alexis and Ozil beyond one more season). Do I have faith in Arsenal to do that kind of business? No I don't.

Would love to be proved wrong though. Absolutely love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Kylian Mbappe
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:13 pm 
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My fear is that if we had the warchest for instance and the muscle to aggressively get a player rather than the way we have been doing things recently then if we got a Morata or Belotti and they were banging in goals and assisting Alexis on a weekly basis then Ozil and Sanchez would maybe stay.

However as you rightly say Tubz we will be stagnant all the way through till mid August apart from signing the guy from Schalke on a free and will end up with a Sanogo or Park.


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 Post subject: Re: Kylian Mbappe
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:12 am 
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Tubz, I certainly wouldn't bet even a penny against that. As usual I don't suspect any malice or intentional idiocy, but rather, last few seasons have shown that for whatever reason we don't have the combination of money, prestige, and dealmaking power to push big deals through 80% of the time. It'll be a tall order for that to suddenly change this season.

As usual, we're going to get stuck in a weird space. Let's say this bid is true. Wenger might feel Mbappe is worth crazy money, especially in our dire situation, but maybe Mbappe doesn't move. What about, say, Lacazette? Wenger might think, well, normally I'd pay 30m for Lacazette. This season, given our situation and dire need, we could pay 50m. What if Lyon demand 70m? It's not going to happen, is it? I feel like the striker market is just as tight as it has been the last five years, and the stars are really going to have to align right for us to get a good one.

When Wenger comes out and says "there was no striker available to improve the team" as he has done in the past, I think that's what it means: we could only get a Higuain for 80m, a Perez for 17m, or nobody. So, do we actually spend 100m and superbig wages on Mbappe? Do we spend 80m on Lacazette?


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 Post subject: Re: Kylian Mbappe
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:22 am 
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Couldn't agree more with Tubz on this.

The rumours are the typical "warchest"-story. Of course the club is happy to play along: A great opportunity for the club to "show ambition", and the fans are pacified over the summer because they can dream. Yet the link is so unrealistic on so many fronts that we're never in danger of actually landing the player. I would actually question Mbappe's ambitions if he were to come to us. :lol:

The only reason I'm not only cynical but also annoyed about this is that we have about a dozen more pressing issues to fix with this squad, rather than making up dream transfers.


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 Post subject: Re: Kylian Mbappe
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:24 pm 
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arcaliea wrote:
Tubz, I certainly wouldn't bet even a penny against that. As usual I don't suspect any malice or intentional idiocy, but rather, last few seasons have shown that for whatever reason we don't have the combination of money, prestige, and dealmaking power to push big deals through 80% of the time. It'll be a tall order for that to suddenly change this season.

As usual, we're going to get stuck in a weird space. Let's say this bid is true. Wenger might feel Mbappe is worth crazy money, especially in our dire situation, but maybe Mbappe doesn't move. What about, say, Lacazette? Wenger might think, well, normally I'd pay 30m for Lacazette. This season, given our situation and dire need, we could pay 50m. What if Lyon demand 70m? It's not going to happen, is it? I feel like the striker market is just as tight as it has been the last five years, and the stars are really going to have to align right for us to get a good one.

When Wenger comes out and says "there was no striker available to improve the team" as he has done in the past, I think that's what it means: we could only get a Higuain for 80m, a Perez for 17m, or nobody. So, do we actually spend 100m and superbig wages on Mbappe? Do we spend 80m on Lacazette?


I get your point Arc but if Arsenal are not prepared to spend big on their targets why are they coming out in the press and saying that they are prepared to spend big, not afraid to spend what I would call silly sums i.e. £70+ million on their targets?

Wenger is still trying to find value in a transfer market that is so inflated by Premier League money. Europe is aware of this. We either have to get on board with this or be smart about it. Wenger has kind of backed himself into a corner by saying that he only wants to add top class players. Top class players generally cost money unfortunately, a lot of money. So he either has to swallow it and do what is necessary or be clever about it and try and find talent that can become top class but that is not an option (since Arsenal's scouting department apparently is a mess, we are behind on that front as well). So his only option really, if he wants to back up his claims for adding top class to the squad is to spend what is necessary on the players he thinks will take this club to the next level. If he identifies Lacazette as that player, Mbappe as that player, Peter Crouch as that player then he has to be prepared to spend what is required to do the deal.

There are players available in that striking position who can improve us, I am sure of that. It is whether Arsenal can attract those players and whether Arsenal are willing to spend big in order to land the kind of stellar name that not only instantly improves the first team but also backs up what Wenger is saying.


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 Post subject: Re: Kylian Mbappe
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:41 pm 
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Basically, what I'm suggesting is, I do not think the popular refrain "Wenger is afraid to spend top money for top quality, his penny pinching means we can't get them" is correct at all. I think it is entirely incorrect in the post-Ozil days, though there are signs it was correct in the lean years (Xabi Alonso, etc). I think the real problem now is "Wenger is happy to spend top money for top quality, but we don't have enough money/etc for top quality, we can only get decent quality for top money." I could be wrong, but I don't think it's that we could get Aubameyang for 30m and he just doesn't want to.

The question is, if we hypothetically have 150m, we can't afford/attract Mbappe or Griezmann, and someone like Lacazette or Lukaku is 80m, is it the right move to buy him? Some will say yes, and blame Wenger for failing to do so. I think it's a tough call, but ultimately, yes, even overpaying for a decent striker is better than Park + Welbeck + Perez of the last 5 years. So I'm not excusing Wenger's failures, I just suspect the reasons for that failure are a bit different.


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 Post subject: Re: Kylian Mbappe
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:06 pm 
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@mattspiro: "Kylian Mbappe and Monaco have agreed to ignore all offers this summer (Le Parisien). Impressive statement of ambition from Monaco if true"
https://twitter.com/mattspiro/status/872346709531275265

:wave:


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