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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:14 am 
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Whatever type of player Wilshere develops into, in my opinion he has a lot of similarities to Joe Cole, he'll be very much like Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi in the sense that his presence will simply frighten sides.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:33 am 
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Wilshire for England calls :headbang:

It is just me or was Capello possibly at the stadium simply for a game to watch? I imagine he has long known what players he wants to look at for the friendly (or get the first team back together and get them used to playing again) and that preseason is not the time to judge players. We are talking about a talented youngster who didn't play for the first team for most of the season and who didn't make the U19 Euro squad (granted, sometimes Eastick baffles) yet suddenly he is in Capello's thought for WC 2010? He might be an outside bet for Pearce's 2011 squad depending on how he does over the next two years but the last thing anyone needs is for Wilshire to get such hype.

He is a very talented player but he is 17 and needs to be handled carefully, we have seen how "so and so is the Messiah" has marred the reputations of Walcott, Beckham, Rooney and so on when it turns out they are mortal and actually got them hated for it. I would hope to see more of Wilshire this season, in Fa Cup and maybe on bench a few more times in EPL/CL, I also hope the same for Merdia and to a far larger extent, Ramsey and Vela then we did last season but I don't expect him to be high up on list of attacking players this year for Wenger. It would be great if the press would just go "Wilshire talented, let's sere how he does in the years ahead" as there have been several seemingly future stars vanishing and there is no guarantee this won't happen to Wilshire, Merdia, Watt, Thomas, Lansbury, Welbeck and so on.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:47 am 
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It not always a negative thing all the hype, within reason it may actually spur him on. He's not a player short of confidence or one who lacks composure on the ball like Walcott often does. I'd argue that all this talk will actually push his progression through the final stages. What he needs now is experience on a more regular basis against strong opposition. If he has the ability to come into 2 difficult games and perform to that standard then there is no reason why he cant handle the same responsiblity in the Premiership. Not week in week out of course but there is no need to protect him without actually seeing if he can handle it. Not to put even more pressure on with comparisons but it never did Rooney or Messi any harm to be thrown into the deep end. Jack is now a squad player, he's good enough to play in our first team and the media is not going to let up on him. He deserves the plaudits so before we all start panicing about his development i think we should realise his talent for what it is at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:35 pm 
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So the hyping up of a young 17 year old English prospect on SSN begins "Wilshere for England".

Jack is at the moment a highly amazing prospect of a player and best of all he's an Arsenal youth academy player, what worries me the most is the hype or should I say the amount of pressure that is put on young players in England to be the next Gascoine, Lineker or the like. Really get's on my nerves just let the lad enjoy playing his football.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:52 pm 
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TH14 wrote:
It not always a negative thing all the hype, within reason it may actually spur him on. He's not a player short of confidence or one who lacks composure on the ball like Walcott often does. I'd argue that all this talk will actually push his progression through the final stages. What he needs now is experience on a more regular basis against strong opposition. If he has the ability to come into 2 difficult games and perform to that standard then there is no reason why he cant handle the same responsiblity in the Premiership. Not week in week out of course but there is no need to protect him without actually seeing if he can handle it. Not to put even more pressure on with comparisons but it never did Rooney or Messi any harm to be thrown into the deep end. Jack is now a squad player, he's good enough to play in our first team and the media is not going to let up on him. He deserves the plaudits so before we all start panicing about his development i think we should realise his talent for what it is at the moment.


A talent not good enough for England U19's or to get near the Arsenal squad during the second half of the season? He is a talented player, his performances in CL (rather then preseason against Rangers and a not fully fit Athletico) show that but to suddenly throw him in seems a rather large step for a youngster. Wilshire isn't Messi and we aren't Everton, with Rosicki, Nasri, Arshavin, Nic, Eduardo and Vela, we and he can wait another year or two.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:55 pm 
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I don't think he can, or will wait another year or two. He is destined for the first team sooner rather than later. Arguably more effective than Theo, he is certainly a far more composed, intelligent player than him.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:57 pm 
Scooby wrote:
Whatever type of player Wilshere develops into, in my opinion he has a lot of similarities to Joe Cole, he'll be very much like Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi in the sense that his presence will simply frighten sides.


i cant agree that he will be anything like any of those players, Jack is well just Jack

as i posted in the match thread the best comparison is that he to me (and the misses brother) is that he is a Combo of Le Tisser and Gazza.

He will never rip through a defence at break neck speed but he will however out think pretty much every defender he will ever come up against in order to make them look foolish.

he is only 17, i hope we dont see him again untill the carling cup - we all saw what happend to Theo when the wieght of a country was placed on his shoulders - he imploeded and it took almost 2 season to get back on track.

Not every young player is going to handel pressure like a young rooney he is pretty much specail in that case, as for Jacky boy he needs to be held back a few years let his body catch up with his talent let him feel out a couple of FA cup matches and hone his skills in the carling cup bring him along to those "rubber" champions league games and let him play a part in the odd league game amonst a fully strength team.

We need to stop the press making him out to be the next pele the only way to do this is limit the exposure he has on the big stage while not hindering his progress - its a tough call but we all know Wenger will handel it perfectly

I hope we dont see him becoming a starter for Arsenal untill 2011 when he is 19(ish) i for one fear to much exposure too soon and we could yet again see another bright footballing star fade far to quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:09 pm 
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J17YKP wrote:
Scooby wrote:
Whatever type of player Wilshere develops into, in my opinion he has a lot of similarities to Joe Cole, he'll be very much like Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi in the sense that his presence will simply frighten sides.


i cant agree that he will be anything like any of those players, Jack is well just Jack


He means what he says - Wilshere will be like those players in that he will scare the opposition before the game has even kicked off, not that he will play in the same style of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:14 pm 
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The key is that he WILL be though, not that he is. Right now Jack still needs some time to develop. Next year he will be 18 and he might be ready to start contributing on a bigger scale. Right now, I think he needs to see Carling Cup, maybe a bit of FA cup and the occasional Premier League appearance. No more than that. He also needs to stay far away from the England camp. FAR away.

Let's give this guy the time he needs to develop into a big time player. There's no rush at our club to push him too fast.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:49 pm 
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I think Jack will play about 20 games this season and it will not be because Arsene Wenger doesn't want to rush him, it will be beacause he has much quality ahead of him. for those saying not to rush him, how old was Fab when according to Ashley he was handed muhammed Ali's glove, if Arsene Wenger thinks he has not only the skills but the Mental strenght as well, expect somebody to make way for him next season.
I think Arsene Wenger will struggle to limit Jack's appearances, if at 17 you win 2 x MOTM in one weekend and effectively MVP in a professional competition (yeah it is only pre season), it shows a degree of consistencies, don't forget he won trophies last season at youth level as well, the boy is a WINNER, not just a Gascoine or LeTissier.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:51 pm 
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I have been highly critical of Wenger over the summer but on this matter I am happy to leave it with him. He knows what to do with Jack just as he did with Cesc, Clichy, Robin van Persie etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:14 pm 
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What is obvious is how very envious opposition fans are that we have not just a talented youngster but a very very talented youngster who has a very good chance of being a big player. The amount of crap I've read on other forums (i've beeen very bored) about how Wilshere isn't that great, he's done nothing yet and he's set up to fail. It's really sad that they cannot appreciate we have a talented young player in our ranks who looks very very promising and not only will it benefit us but also his national team. I'd put my wages on it there would be even more uproar if he where a United or Liverpool player and he would be the next "insert world class player here".


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:37 pm 
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Aside from obvious talent, which the boy has in buckets, I think the one issue a lot of you simply aren't considering is the way he handles himself. The boy obviously has a LOT of confidence. It's a joke comparing that aspect to Walcott as, even at his current age, Theo rarely looks as composed and determined as Jack does. It was the same last year in preseason when most of us saw him for the first time against mature opposition. He never shied away from anything and played like he'd been there all along. To me, this is most telling about his mental state - he KNOWS he's good enough and wants to prove that. Young, talented players in his age-bracket tend to look sheepish when they're on the field of play, would rather pass off to a more senior teammate than have a go themselves.

Anyone thinking that this lad shouldn't be considered for a handful of PL+CL substitute appearances combined with the freedom to do what he wants in the Carling Cup and some FA Cup appearances is off their rockers. Add in the occasional start - I think he's good enough to be rotated into a game against a Burnley, for example, the weekend before a midweek CL clash; and I think he's good for at LEAST 15, but would love to see him get 20/22 games this season. It's players like Diaby and Eboue (stop playing him in MF) that I'd much rather we rid to free up space for youngsters like him. It's times when we start forcing some very square pegs into some extremely round holes that we should be thinking: why not Jack?

That said, Arsene Wenger knows more than most how to make the most out of the young man. I'm looking forward to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:16 am 
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Dennis O wrote:
I think Jack will play about 20 games this season and it will not be because Arsene Wenger doesn't want to rush him, it will be beacause he has much quality ahead of him. for those saying not to rush him, how old was Fab when according to Ashley he was handed muhammed Ali's glove, if Arsene Wenger thinks he has not only the skills but the Mental strenght as well, expect somebody to make way for him next season.
I think Arsene Wenger will struggle to limit Jack's appearances, if at 17 you win 2 x MOTM in one weekend and effectively MVP in a professional competition (yeah it is only pre season), it shows a degree of consistencies, don't forget he won trophies last season at youth level as well, the boy is a WINNER, not just a Gascoine or LeTissier.


If two games counts then Barry is a world class midfielder who is the answer to England's dm problems and SWP is a world class winger. Liverpool youth sides have won plenty and produced how much over the years?

Who is Fab?

Gooner127 wrote:
What is obvious is how very envious opposition fans are that we have not just a talented youngster but a very very talented youngster who has a very good chance of being a big player. The amount of crap I've read on other forums (i've beeen very bored) about how Wilshere isn't that great, he's done nothing yet and he's set up to fail. It's really sad that they cannot appreciate we have a talented young player in our ranks who looks very very promising and not only will it benefit us but also his national team. I'd put my wages on it there would be even more uproar if he where a United or Liverpool player and he would be the next "insert world class player here".


The ones I talk to are more very frustrated that an untested youngster is suddenly now on the media's mind for a England call up. They are not saying Wilshire doesn't have talent but that the level of hype is ridiculous

garthy4u wrote:
Aside from obvious talent, which the boy has in buckets, I think the one issue a lot of you simply aren't considering is the way he handles himself. The boy obviously has a LOT of confidence. It's a joke comparing that aspect to Walcott as, even at his current age, Theo rarely looks as composed and determined as Jack does. It was the same last year in preseason when most of us saw him for the first time against mature opposition. He never shied away from anything and played like he'd been there all along. To me, this is most telling about his mental state - he KNOWS he's good enough and wants to prove that. Young, talented players in his age-bracket tend to look sheepish when they're on the field of play, would rather pass off to a more senior teammate than have a go themselves.

Anyone thinking that this lad shouldn't be considered for a handful of PL+CL substitute appearances combined with the freedom to do what he wants in the Carling Cup and some FA Cup appearances is off their rockers. Add in the occasional start - I think he's good enough to be rotated into a game against a Burnley, for example, the weekend before a midweek CL clash; and I think he's good for at LEAST 15, but would love to see him get 20/22 games this season. It's players like Diaby and Eboue (stop playing him in MF) that I'd much rather we rid to free up space for youngsters like him. It's times when we start forcing some very square pegs into some extremely round holes that we should be thinking: why not Jack?

That said, Arsene Wenger knows more than most how to make the most out of the young man. I'm looking forward to it.


I'm off my rocker? :cry2:

I would rather have, in the wing area's in no real order, Arshavin, Roskicky, Nasri, Nic, Van Persie, Walcott, Vela ahead of him at this point in time. Is he confident? Yes but how long will that last if some fool starts heckling or booing him?


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:51 am 
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Magic Hat wrote:
TH14 wrote:
It not always a negative thing all the hype, within reason it may actually spur him on. He's not a player short of confidence or one who lacks composure on the ball like Walcott often does. I'd argue that all this talk will actually push his progression through the final stages. What he needs now is experience on a more regular basis against strong opposition. If he has the ability to come into 2 difficult games and perform to that standard then there is no reason why he cant handle the same responsiblity in the Premiership. Not week in week out of course but there is no need to protect him without actually seeing if he can handle it. Not to put even more pressure on with comparisons but it never did Rooney or Messi any harm to be thrown into the deep end. Jack is now a squad player, he's good enough to play in our first team and the media is not going to let up on him. He deserves the plaudits so before we all start panicing about his development i think we should realise his talent for what it is at the moment.


A talent not good enough for England U19's or to get near the Arsenal squad during the second half of the season? He is a talented player, his performances in CL (rather then preseason against Rangers and a not fully fit Athletico) show that but to suddenly throw him in seems a rather large step for a youngster. Wilshire isn't Messi and we aren't Everton, with Rosicki, Nasri, Arshavin, Nic, Eduardo and Vela, we and he can wait another year or two.


You seriously think Wenger would advise him to go and play in a pointless tournament near the start of the season rather than train with the first team? Wilshere is a squad player, Wenger is not using him in preseason for the sake of it, he has options in that position but he choose to play him to determine what level he is playing at. Why would you stop his development at this stage just because he's younger than you'd expect? Putting him back into the youth setup is not going to help his talent now is it, he is shown he's now above that level so steadily he needs to be brought into the first team. There is such a thing as being too cautious, Wilshere is not your average youngster.


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