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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Dannyg wrote:
SloppyGooner wrote:
Dannyg wrote:
I wonder whether Wilshere is being considered as a replacement for Cesc if/when he decides to leave? I think it's fair to say that if Jack continues on his current level of progress and fulfills his potential, then he will be as good if not better than Cesc. This is why i believe that if we were to receive a bid in the region of 50m the Arsene Wenger would have to consider it.

Would It even be possible to accommodate both Jack and Cesc in the same team?


Yeh they're totally different players. It's like saying could Iniesta and Messi play in the same team?


Well not really, Neither Cesc or Jack are anything like Messi. Do you expect them to play in the same team this season then? They both have similar attributes do you not think?


I think Jack will end up playing considerably further forward than Cesc. He's the kind of player to make runs at the defence, not sit deep and distribute. I see him playing in the hole behind the front man/men.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:41 pm 
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yeah, I agree with alfie; their styles are very different. Whilst Jack has the abillity to pick out a killer ball as we saw at The Emirates Cup it isn't the focal point of his game-unlike Cesc. Jack seems to prefer running at players and opening space that way: kind of like Nasri, but hopefully a lot better in the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:47 am 
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Dannyg wrote:
Well not really, Neither Cesc or Jack are anything like Messi. Do you expect them to play in the same team this season then? They both have similar attributes do you not think?


It wasn't a player for player comment, it was just noting that just because we have two very good young players it doesnt mean they cant play together.

Cesc is a much more central player, holding the spine of team together, linking the defence and the attack. Jack players further forward, creating more around the box, having a go at goal and teasing defenders left right and centre with his quick feet and acceleration.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:00 pm 
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Why Arsenal star Jack Wilshere needs to be beware an attack of Bentleyitis
By Oliver Holt in Mirror Football Blog Published 23:00 03/01/10
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion ... 76767.html

The Arsenal kids were all right in the end yesterday. Aaron Ramsey was particularly all right. But there was an isolated outbreak of Bentleyitis in the Gunners ranks at Upton Park. That’s Bentleyitis as in David Bentley. Bentleyitis as in giving the impression you’re a bit too good for the rest of your Arsenal team-mates. Bentleyitis as in believing too much of your own publicity and playing like you're a legend in your own mind before you’ve cracked the first team. Bentleyitis as in strutting around like an emperor and playing like a pauper. The victim of this unfortunate condition yesterday was Jack Wilshere. It is a little harsh to single him out. He only turned 18 a few days ago. But he does not look like the type who is going to let a bit of criticism drain his deep well of confidence. And the truth is, Wilshere looked like a young man with an awful lot to learn against West Ham. He has long been touted as one of the brightest stars to emerge from Arsenal’s youth system.

And it may be that he has attracted extra attention and hyperbole because he is an English kid at a club known for nurturing young players from abroad. There were even those who suggested a few months ago that he might force his way into Fabio Capello’s World Cup squad by the end of this season. Well, we can forget about that idea right now. The chances of Wilshere making the plane to South Africa are zero. And while Ramsey gave a performance of extraordinary maturity in this FA Cup third round tie, Wilshere looked out of place. He gave the ball away with alarming frequency, he neglected a golden chance to lay on a goal because he got greedy and he was reluctant to track back. “He needs to play,” Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger said after the match. “Because he does not play enough games, when he does get a chance he feels under pressure to achieve something special. But I am not worried for him. He just needs to play. I will make a decision towards the end of January about whether to send him out on loan. It depends on how many players I get back from injury.”

Wilshere clearly has a lot of talent but he is also acquiring a reputation among some of his team-mates at Arsenal for growing rather intoxicated with his own ability. He certainly needs to work on his contribution to the team ethos. Twice in the space of 30 seconds late in the first half, he gave the ball away in dangerous situations. First, as Arsenal tried to play the ball out of defence, he flicked a casual pass straight to West Ham striker Frank Nouble on the edge of the Gunners box. More experienced strikers would have buried the chance. Nouble fluffed it. But no sooner had Arsenal regained possession than Wilshere gave it away again. This time, he came under pressure as he tried to shield the ball, running back towards his own goal. He dithered too long and Radoslav Kovac stole the ball from him to set up Luis Jiminez who fired wide. Wilshere reacted by trying to blame right-back Bacary Sagna. William Gallas reacted by giving Wilshere one of his very hardest, longest stares. Wilshere didn’t seem to notice. He had a chance to make a mark a few minutes later when he ran on to a clever backheel from Carlos Vela and accelerated into the West Ham box. Alex Song was waiting unmarked five yards square of him, ready to shoot into an open goal. But Wilshere chose to ignore him and go alone. He was easily dispossessed.

A loan may be just what he needs. Before that Bentleyitis gets serious.

I don't want to discuss Oliver Holt's article too much, but he does bring up a good point about young Jack's attitude, and perhaps as he call's it ' A touch of Bentleyitis '. Would a loan move give him not only playing time, but first team football with players who might tell him as it is. A way of growing up ? Or would the loan move be potentially a wrong decision ?


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:07 pm 
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As the Wenger quotes say in that article, I think a loan move will only be a possibility if we can get some injured players back and keep them fit and healthy. As much as a loan move might well be very beneficial for Jack at this stage it would be unwise IMO to further weaken our squad depth when we're light on numbers, especially if there is the chance of Wilshere getting playing time in the Arsenal side.

If we can afford to loan him for the remainder of the season then I'd be all for it. There isn't much more for him to gain playing reserve football, the experience of playing for another side in the PL or the Championship could not only offer some valuable playing time but might also serve as a bit of character building as well from having to blend into a strange squad, or even move to a different part of the country if he goes to a club further north.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:19 pm 
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How reliable is Holt as a journalist and how good do his sources tend to be? Awesome name for the conditions though why didn't Gallas use his mouth rather then a stare?

If Wilshire hadn't earnt such a good reputation, the press would barely be worrying about his "struggling" season. The Wilshire for WC2010 speculation was not particularly helpful and were always very very optimistic but when the press get it wrong, they can end up looking for reasons why. He wasn't that good? Attitude? Manager? So I tend to take anything like this with a pinch of salt. This season's struggles for Wilshire could be any number of factors, defenders being more of him, second season syndrome, a loss of form, feeling the pressure, lack of games meaning no chance to build a rhythm, trying too hard when he does get a rare chance.

Any of those factors could have explained his performance against West Ham and I don't recall the Song incident. At the time, I thought the two moments of defensive suicide where stupid and reckless but I have seen worse from the likes of Jens, Diaby, Hleb and Eduardo before (all far older players), just give him a word someone and forget about it. The Sagna thing could easily be Wilshire feeling the rightback was failing to give him an option to pass to but if Holt was looking for an arrogant thing from Wilshire, that can look arrogant.

If Holt's sources are correct, that is a tad disturbing but the one thing I have seen/read/heard that does disturb me is Wilshire's attitude to being loaned to a championship club, he should really be open to taking a step down at his age. If he is being a Bentley, well he is 18 and with the help of Arsenal (or loan team mates, a different environment could help), he may come out of it. Bendtner was once so arrogant it became a joke and at one time, seemed like team mates refused to pass to him but now is a valuable member of the Arsenal squad, some youngsters mature.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:34 pm 
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This is not a rumour, and no indication of Wilshere's attitude but after the Hull game, young Jack was in the White Swan Wetherspoons by Highbury and Islington tube. Didn't recognise him myself straight away mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:19 pm 
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Newcastle hoping to sign Arsenal midfielder
By Paul Fraser, 10:54am Wednesday 12th May 2010
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/ ... idfielder/

CHRIS HUGHTON intends to convince Jack Wilshere he should spend next season on loan at Newcastle rather than head back to Bolton for another nine months. The Newcastle boss started working on his transfer options for the summer a few weeks ago and Wilshere is prominent in his plans. Hughton has known throughout that time that he would be given little funds to strengthen, so using the loan system and acquiring free signings has been in his thinking. But Hughton hopes Arsenal and Wilshere will be receptive to the idea of the highly-rated midfielder heading to the North-East.

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger has been satisfied with the experience the 18- year-old has gained from spending this season at the Reebok Stadium and is expected to give him the goahead to head out again from August. Bolton boss Owen Coyle has admitted he will be doing his best to make sure Wilshere rejoins, but Newcastle are keen to convince him otherwise. It is a task that will not be straight-forward because the player enjoyed his time in Lancashire, where he was given a standing ovation from the Bolton fans after Sunday’s 2-0 win over Birmingham City.

Hughton is hoping the prospect of being able to offer Wilshere the opportunity to play in front of 50,000-plus crowds at St James’ Park will prove more attractive to both Wenger and the player. It promises to be a challenging summer for Hughton, who knows his hands are tied as he attempts to strengthen his squad.

Newcastle owner Mike Ashley’s declaration to make no cash available for signings, made via a 1,000-plus word statement on Sunday, outlined an intention to see the club break even over the next five years and he wants much of the club’s success to be down to the Academy. Before that happens, however, Hughton knows his first team needs to be tinkered with and, as well as Wilshere, he also has his eyes on Man United youngsters Danny Welbeck and Tom Cleverley.

Interestingly, following Sunday’s statement, Ashley felt he had to react to claims that he has tightened the purse strings this summer because he is looking at ways of recouping the cash he has already put in to the club. The latest financial figures show Ashley has loaned the club £111m, which is repayable on request, and it has been suggested that he was ready to reduce that. But Ashley said in a statement last night that he is “not looking for his interestfree loan to the club to be repaid, or to take any money out of the club”.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:49 pm 
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If Jack's not going to get the opportunities at the Emirates next season then I'd be quite happy for him to go on loan up there. He'd certainly get 1st team football regularily enough and although I've not seen him too much myself when he was at Bolton I hear that he's impressed there, playing a full season in the Premiership will stand him in great stead for the season after that. He'll have a few options as to where to play next season I'd imagine.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:21 pm 
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Anyone have any concerns over his attitude, that it could possibly go to his head? We've all seen how he behaves on the pitch, and heard rumours of how he behaves off it, without pointing accusation at him, does anyone have any concerns?


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:04 am 
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I'll be interested to see how he reacts to getting dropped by Pearce.

Robin van Persie#11 wrote:
Anyone have any concerns over his attitude, that it could possibly go to his head? We've all seen how he behaves on the pitch, and heard rumours of how he behaves off it, without pointing accusation at him, does anyone have any concerns?


Rumours are rumours and I have seen little to complain about, beyond his reckless tackles, on the pitch so not concerned at the moment. What is it on the pitch that worries you?


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:43 am 
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Interesting point about those tackles, I like the fact he isn't scared and will put his foot in but he has to watch those tackles because at some point he is going to hurt someone. That said, at the same time that tenacity in the middle really does give us something else that the likes of Denilson, Nasri etc don't offer. Its a fine line and it be the case that he has to get sent off a couple of times to learn where that line is.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:36 pm 
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Tubzinho wrote:
Interesting point about those tackles, I like the fact he isn't scared and will put his foot in but he has to watch those tackles because at some point he is going to hurt someone. That said, at the same time that tenacity in the middle really does give us something else that the likes of Denilson, Nasri etc don't offer. Its a fine line and it be the case that he has to get sent off a couple of times to learn where that line is.

He probably does need to get sent off, but I honestly believe he could end up doing a Taylor or Shawcross, obviously not intentionally but some of his tackles are just dangerous


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Continuing on from Diaby injury thread

block132 wrote:

Look, Coyle is a good upcoming manager, (he's no messiah though) i'd like him more if he made it clearer to his players that the sort of challenge on Diaby was not acceptable from players in his team. I disagree that it was a gamble to play Wilshire. Many experts, much more knowledgeable than me have been touting him as a future England star for a couple of years now. He's always been aggressive which his size demands so I'm not sure that he needed much more toughening up. I'm also not sure whether Bolton were the only side in for him, I'd imagine not, so maybe they were the lucky ones.

You do paint a bleak picture of him though.


Who knows what Coyle has said to his players but then, I would like to see all managers (including our own) quicker to condemn, in public, bad tackles. As for Wilshire, yes he was rated as an England star but so are a few other youngsters right now. How many of the England U17 team do you see being ready to be loaned out to Prem clubs? How many Prem managers do you see as willing to take a gamble on even the hotter talents of the European champions? Not convinced many would here of the France U19 champions either. That isn't to say said managers think they are bad players but it is a gamble playing someone so young so soon. I think Wilshire is a very good talent but yes, at the time, it was a gamble by a fairly good manager

Dannyg wrote:
Regarding Jack Wilshere, though, I would tend to agree with block132. The guy obviously has immense potential and Owen Coyle knew that would improve his squad, hence all the Wenger bum-licking. You could say that it's risky giving game time to a young player but you could also argue that it's risky giving time to mediocre players. Like Elmander for example.

I think any accusation of poor attitude or poor form from the young man are totally ridiculous. Here we have a player is literally a kid who already had immense speculation on him, who is playing at one of the biggest clubs in the world- I think we can cut him a bit of slack. The exclusion from England's u19 and u21 squads just proves to me what a bunch of incompetent fools the FA and the England management, especially Stuart Pearce, are. Just because Jack Wilshere is a gifted player it doesn't mean he should be treated any differently, whether positively or negatively.

The quicker Stuart Pearce drops this hard-man, saviour of English football, generic quoting, "passion" showing nonsense, the better.


Coyle was praising Arsene when he was at Burnley, the praise does seem genuine.

Ridiculous? It's fine saying he is young, he will learn and improve and that we need patience, at no point did I condemn him. That doesn't mean you then loan the guy in for your battle to stay up since the need is more towards the next few months rather then years.

Oh that is along the lines of the Sun recent insult to Capello because someone's fav player didn't get picked. Or your Juan Santisteban, in which case it is an honour and privilege to read your thoughts but I'm guessing it is closer to the Sun. These "incompetent fools" have been helped reform a system that was in dire straits, each year England improves thanks to the men you elect to insult. The system that has seen England win a trophy at youth level, reach finals at U17 U19 and U21 level in recent years, has seen English technique improve so we aren't so easily embarrassed anymore.

Yes even Stuart Pearce. A man who has "merely" got England U21's to a semi final and a final in his two tournaments, who has pushed for Burton to be made, who has been selected by a man who has won it all as his assistant, who has worked hard with the other youth coaches. Still, I'm sure your Uefa qualifications, work with youth teams and scouting the best of English talent surpass all of them and so look forward to hearing about it. :wink:

I understand disagreeing with them but insulting them is ridiculous. Have a little respect for men who have given their career's to the game in unglamorous roles, tried to get things played the right way and earnt their qualifications.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:51 am 
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I'm not sure what your point was regarding 'The Sun' I make a point of never reading that mindless Murdoch-driven drivel, so I'm not really sure what comparison you're trying to make.

I stick by my criticism of Stuart Pearce. The guy is number 1 in my dislike list and he typifies dverything that is wrong with the English game. Passion over ability, running around over accurate passing, tactically inept. England will never win anything of NOTE whilst such people occupy such important roles. However I do concede that perhaps I was being harsh on some of the behind-the-scenes coaches at u17 and U19 levels- sorry bout that.

The incompetence generally comes from the top, the FA, and filters down. The whole system needs an overhaul and the coaching is very basic. I don't need to provide proof of this, the evidence us there for us all to see.


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