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 Post subject: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:08 pm 
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Okay, I know there's a topic in the News and Reports section but none for debate, and I feel the debate will get lost in there. How does everyone feel Wenger should bring through Jack Wilshere?

He's shown in the 2 starts he's been given and he's head and shoulders (with Ramsey) above the rest of the young players*, his awareness, vision and skill is incredible for someone so young and apart from Lionel Messi, I've never seen anyone control the ball, take the ball away from the defender and set himself for a pass with his 1st touch, it's all natural to him. The media seems to have caught onto the special player we have here, so what should we do with him?

He looks defensively better than Theo does, the way he shields the ball when facing towards his own goal and wriggles out of trouble, where as Walcott just tries a swivel and usually loses it in our half, Wilshere always seems to get out of trouble. He has no fear too, the way he throws himself into the danger area and uses his limited body weight to shield the ball, it's a great sight.

I've always believed since I saw him at 15 that he'd be in our first team, but I didn't think it would be this quick. Should Wenger give him the green light in Premier League games right away? Or keep giving him the experience of sitting on the bench and after Christmas, considering using him as a secret weapon? Or should he throw him into the deep end and play him when Walcott and Eboue are unavailable? Or even ahead of Eboue!?

I like what Wenger is doing with him now, there is no rush, but I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks on the suject?

*I include Vela as a core first teamer, where as I rate Ramsey and Wilshere are on the fringes of the first team because of their age, bur no doubt, I rate Vela just as much as Ramsey or Jack.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:39 pm 
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He is 17 on new years eve and although being a month or so older won't make him anymore experienced i think we should wait till next to give him any sort of opportunity. He should and will continue in our Carling Cup run how ever long that is for the rest of this year and hopefully into next. His biggest priority should be getting a contract and we should tie him down for aslong as possible like with Cesc, a five year deal would be ideal. With the new 7 men benches used in the Premiership i think Wenger can get him more and more used to Premiership and European match days without having to use him. He could have the last 5 and 10 minutes in games where we are comfortable in both competitions. Depending who we get in the early rounds of the FA Cup he could also feature more promonantly like in the Carling Cup. Towards the end of the season depending if we are still fighting for trophies their could be more opportunities to play longer and even start matches if isn't much hanging on the result. From next season i see him being involved much more even staking a claim for a starting posistion, with Rosickys injury situation and Eboue and Diaby in recent times finding their ways onto the wings then their is definatly room for Wilshere. Even Walcott is long term seen as a striker.

Above all he shouldn't be loaned out, their is little more he can learn but he needs his education to continue with Wenger and spend time round the likes of Fabregas and players he will play with for a large period of his carear. It all looks like the bulk of the squad he is with now will be with him so he should build on and off field relationships and he will be fine and most of all it looks like we, as a club, will be more than fine with players like Jack Wilshere coming through.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:44 pm 
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Exceptional players rely on ability rather than experience, and I guess that's why we won't see him loaned out. Players like Randall and Gibbs will improve with experience, Wilshere has the ability and the potential to just be thrown in and keep learning, players like Messi prove that, he was exceptional from his 1st day in the Barcelona team, and he hasn't stopped.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:25 pm 
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Robin van Persie#11 wrote:
He's shown in the 2 starts he's been given and he's head and shoulders (with Ramsey) above the rest of the young players,


Including Vela, I seriously think these 3 have a chance to surpass any talent that has come before them, When you compare them to the likes of Pennant, Upson, Sidwell, Bentley. They are not competing with the invincibles team or a title winning team, they are competing with players such as Bendtner (Who I think will not be here much longer if Vela starts more games), Diaby, Eboue and Cesc.

Ramsey and Wilshere both have the potential to be homegrown british stars, and I know people have quoted me before on the have we reached boiling point thread about the fact that I think British is the way forward but I am not, I am thinking that if Cesc leaves in January or in the summer do we need to replace him. If we knew Flamini was going to Milan, I think Diarra would have stayed but that is a different topic. What I am trying to say is if Cesc goes we have 2 natural successors in Wilshere and Ramsey, to be honest I think they could work the central midfield every week with Theo on the right and Nasri on the left.

These kids are the best we have had for a long time, everyone said that the last set of CC kids were good, just remember some of them have been totally blitzed by these 2 kids.

And if rumours are true, the likes of Freeman, Coquelin have immense talent and the potential scoop of Dalph from Leeds, it proves that the future is bright, I am doing an about turn on what I said last week because if these kids were to play like this in top flight premiership games against top 4 opposition we could be the strongest we have been in years, stronger than dare I say it The Invincibles


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:27 pm 
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There is no doubt that Arsenal have a big prospect on their hands in Wilshere. He shows skill and awareness that rarely comes out of someone that age in abundance. You'll see a player try a trick or two and then go into their shell with lack of confidence when it doesn't work out. With Wilshere he's got that little swagger that tells you that he's full of confidence all the time and feels that this is his stage to perform.

I think that Arsenal are doing things exactly right with him right now. We have the Carling Cup and the FA Cup for now which will give him a bit of experience against the "big boys" but don't underestimate the price of him playing in the reserves. He did very well in the back end of last season and earned his reviews. This season has seen a bit of a mixed bag for him in the reserves. From the matches i've seen him play in, he's had some amazing moments, flashes of brilliance and good periods but also some where he's either gone missing or not been on his game. He still has a lot of learning to do and I'd hate for him to get it in his head that he's special compared to the others. We know he is but he needs to stay grounded and focussed...

Next season could be a different story though 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:44 am 
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The thing i feel about Wilshere is that he's already contributing significantly to the team when deployed whereas guys like Walcott and Bendtner are still struggling to put in consistent performances. Granted, he is still young and will need time to develop further but i feel his progress will be quicker than say, Walcott's. He's very small in size and will need to bulk up but he's already countering his disadvantages with his intelligence such as holding off players and turning away in tight situations. Very amazing for his age.

I think Arsene Wenger will probably play Wilshere in all the Carling Cup and FA Cup games and occasional substitute appearances league and European games (when the game is more or less won). That should be enough to nurture him for the next 2 years. By the middle or end of next season, we should know more or less is he is ready to feature more for the first team.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:56 am 
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I feel it's unfair to compare Wilshere with someone like Walcott due to the sheer difference in their natural ability. It's seems like Wilshere was born to play football at the highest level, and a natural footballer, where as Walcott's always been raw, his football has been worked around his natural talent, his pace. Where Walcott's had to develop his whole game around his pace, not doubting the work Wilshere has put in, it's come slightly easier to Wilshere in a gifted sort of way.

And I believe that if Wilshere played the games Walcott has, he's have inconsistencies too, just like we saw in 1 or 2 Reserve games earlier in the season. Like you say, the Carling Cup and FA Cup is there for him to develop and I certainly feel he'll be one of the 3 or 4 that play the FA Cup this year along with the fringe players. Beating Dynamo Kiev will be a huge opportunity for him in the final Champions League game too against Porto Away, that'll really test his metal away from Home.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:18 am 
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I am not sure he does need to bulk up, he looks small but he's very robust and strong for his size. He goes into crunching tackles without any trepidation, I would have no worries about him on that front. Explosive little fella he is, he'll only get stronger as he gets older naturally and that will be one of many really positive attributes in the longer term.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:03 pm 
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Keep him wrapped in cotton wool. Keep his feet on the ground this season... cup (carling / early FAC) games only other than during an injury crisis and the last five or ten mins here and there as the season goes on. I'd like to see him start our last CL group game if we're safe.

Should remain a reserve team regular until the end of the season but after that there's no point. The talent that makes it at Arsenal shows its self quickly and gets fast tracked. No need for loans or years of reserves. He's one of those talents no question.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:41 pm 
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The only thing to bear in mind is his psychological development as well. I think its better for him at 16/17 to be playing and training amongst his own age group. I know our squad is quite young anyway but he will be more comfortable in the reserves for now and there will be less pressure on him.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:50 pm 
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He`s proved he`s too good to leave out. Let`s stop thinking about Jack Wilshere ans start thinking about The Arsenal. The next time Theo or Sami are unavailable or rested - I hope Wenger sticks the lad in. We`ve struggled without Theo in the starting eleven this year - and Eboue, God love him, isn`t on the same level. The fact is, we`ll stand a better chance of getting three points if Wilshere`s in the side. Simple as. If you`re good enough you`re old enough. He`s proved he`s special - and imagine how he could link up with Cesc, Persie, Sami ... it`s the stuff dreams are made of. If we want to win the title this year we need all the help we can get. Get him in the side!


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:50 pm 
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Totally agree with AP on this one.

He's a 16 year old kid, not a footballing machine. He has huge amount of potential for sure, but we need to keep his feet on the ground. He's going to have press, girls etc. knocking on his door and thats quite a culture shock for someone such a young age. It was a little easier for Cesc as he didnt have the whole 'next England star' tag to deal with.

I'd keep him in the reserves and CC team for now. I would personally give him untill next January 2010 beore he starts making any Premiership starts.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:43 pm 
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Sloppy Gooner wrote:
It was a little easier for Cesc as he didnt have the whole 'next England star' tag to deal with.


But while Cesc was also special at that age, he got more match time than would have been expected due to injuries to other players like Edu and PV4. But he was not as consistent then and he was physically weak - I used to worry that some talentless twit from some northern side would leave him in a wheelchair and come out with that pathetic statement 'If I caught him...' like that loser from Sunderland who almost took off Diaby's ankle.

I think the current pace of development is fine - slow build up this year. Carling Cup and bench where possible to give him some time at the end when a game is won. But even then there is a risk - remember Diaby was felled by a no-hoper in injury time of a game that was long lost, Theo was deliberately chopped from being in the dying minutes of a game that was lost by a Stoke thug. So even that tactic has a risk.


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:02 pm 
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Wenger - Wilshere can fill 'Bergkamp role'
By Chris Harris
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archiv ... kamp-role-

Arsène Wenger believes Jack Wilshere will make his name in the role that Dennis Bergkamp filled with distinction. The teenager has emerged as one of English football's brightest talents this season and, thus far, has operated on the right flank for Arsenal. However, Wilshere's manager thinks he has the attributes to succeed a certain Dutch legend in the middle of the park.

"I believe he will end up a central midfielder, just off the striker in the Bergkamp role," said Wenger during his exclusive webchat on Arsenal TV Online this week. "I am convinced he will have tremendous penetrative power and we forget that this boy is only 16 and already has so much power - you give him four more years and he will be massively strong. "He can find the final ball and can also score goals. He is a passionate and committed guy, he is not afraid of tackles and you would want this type of player to finish off central."

This has already been a landmark campaign for Wilshere. He made his Premier League debut at Blackburn and caught the eye during Arsenal's run to the Carling Cup Quarter-Finals, opening his account for the Club in the 6-0 win over Sheffield United. Wilshere then became the youngest player to represent the Club in European competition when he made his Champions League debut against Dynamo Kyiv last month aged 16 years and 329 days. Wilshere has looked right at home at the top level but Wenger warned not to demand too much too soon from the Hertfordshire-born midfielder. After all, Wilshere does not turn 17 until New Year's Day.

"I would not like to put too much pressure on Jack because of the expectation level," said Wenger. "That is one of the problems you have when you are talented and very young - Theo Walcott went through that. "At the start there is a lot of enthusiasm around players, and suddenly afterwards people say 'oh he is not as good as we thought he would be', there is a lot of scepticism around the player. He has to survive at the top level and it is not easy. "Theo coped well with that and I am confident we can surround Jack well enough to deal with it."


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing through Wilshere
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:31 pm 
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I believe he will end up a central midfielder, just off the striker in the Bergkamp role

Bentley Flashback!

I'm really looking forward to seeing the little fella progress and I'm envious of those who've seen him coming through. He looks like a player who can hold it up well and play a cutting ball at will, eyeing the right pass at the right time. Nothing seems to have phased him so far and if that composure is part of his make up then good, because he'll need it being young and English.


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