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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:43 am 
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I don't feel any different to Wenger than I have ever done.

The personal abuse he has taken over the years has been disgraceful and unjustified; he shoulders the blame for everything, whilst the other clowns who own/run the club live in their ivory towers. That said, Wenger does not help himself with the repetitive nature of his behaviour, his acceptance/integrity in shouldering the full burden of the club's problems and never calling out his players.

Arsenal fans were sold a lofty dream with the stadium move and football has moved in a direction that has meant that dream is not likely to come to fruition. That is a heavy burden, but the club have to shoulder responsibility for abject failings in planning pre-season each and every season. It is not acceptable that a world-class club enters every season short-stacked because we can't get our shit together and take an opportunistic view towards squad building. That is a failing of a club who do not have a competent team in place to negotiate the acquisition of targets Wenger has identified. It is also a malaise emanating from personnel being too comfortable as we are unwilling to prioritise squad-regeneration/improvements.

There is nothing new here ^. I have wanted Wenger to bow out for 3-4 years and feel for his own sake he should have done, accepting the acclaim for his career rather than increasingly being the punchbag for every single thing that goes wrong at the club. And that he is; defined as an autocrat, but in reality 'supported' by a bunch of slimy fucks who stand small and silent in the comfort of his shadow.

It would never happen, but I think if Wenger lowered himself to writing an autobiography, his memoirs would be very revealing as to what actually happens behind closed doors at this club and some of the constraints he has to work within. We have become a high-end Newcastle or Inter Milan in recent years, but you can be sure there are a number of fingers to be pointed in various directions.

For a man oft described as a 'senile old fool' or whatever other brickbat is the weapon of choice these days, he seems to get an awful lot right about the direction football is taking and what happens outside of the Emirates...


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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:34 am 
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Interesting that you say that you have wanted him to 'bow out' for his own sake - not once have you suggested he should go for the sake of the club.

Interesting that he 'shoulders the burden' and portraying him as the he victim (waiting for this proof in his memoirs) while referring to others as 'clowns'. You seem happy to 'abuse' anyone but Wenger

I get it - he has done a lot for the club. We have been singing his praises on these forums way way back - but isn't it obvious that his arrogance is damaging the club? For the past 5 years despite winning FA cups he hasn't doe a great deal right. Even financially it's all wrong - he has burdened the club with an expensive bloated disjointed squad.

On the point of the 'abuse' Wenger has faced - he must be a sadist as he has just signed a new contract and gratefully accepts a huge pay increase. All in the face of very obvious dissatisfaction from the fans! He must also approve the behaviour the so called 'clowns' at the club eh - would you work for 'clowns' that have 'hung you out to dry'?

Man of integrity? Or has he become a 'senile old fool'?

PS - LG do you mind if I share your post with others outside ArsenalLand?


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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:44 am 
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Interesting point you make about a "bloated" squad. I just counted on Arsenal.com and assuming Sanchez goes along with the Ox we have 28 players. Some of whom are linked with possible moves. (Perez, Mustafi) what is quite eye opening is some of the names that make up that list. 2 kids (Maitland Niles and Reine Adelaide) , plus Joel Campbell, Chuba Akpom, Matthieu Debuchy, Mertesacker (lets face it, despite his performance at Wembley, he is past it) and more who you really would want to see regularly. Realistically you couldn't expect any of those to feature on a long term basis. We are gradually shedding all our best players rather than the dead wood that bloats the squad. And the reason we can't shed the dead wood is because they're crap.
Numerically we're ok, but in terms of quality this must be one of the worst squads we've had for years, and oh we only have 1 right back in the squad so if Bellerin gets injured we're in the shit.
Worst transfer window ever, quite possibly.
Whilst Wenger will take the blame, some of it rightly, he should have gone years ago, whoever was responsible for getting us into this mess in the first place needs to be accountable. To let so many players get to their last year is just unacceptable.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:26 am 
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I'm the 1st ten years of Arsene in charge the first team was in A state that throwing in unproven youngsters into a confident experienced successful side was always going to be beneficial to their development and progress. However in the 2nd ten years throwing youngsters into the first team has actually damaged them. I am extremely worried of the long term damage that has been created - it's going to take years to fix this.

Of course this is not Arsenes fault - it's all down to the 'clowns' and 'slimey fucks' around and above hiim. That's why Wenger was so eager to sign a new contract and work with these people!

Lets hope the man of integritys 'memoirs' are more honest than any of his bullshit that he so often comes out with.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:38 am 
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We have absolutely imploded this transfer window.

We've lined up with two left backs in a back 3 and a RB playing LWB. That tells you all you'll ever need to know about the state of our squad. It's in disarray.

There's no defence for Wenger either. He should quite simply have walked if he wasn't backed in the window. If it's down to needing to sell before we buy then perhaps the board should have been asked why we're lumbered with so much rubbish?

Remove the players from our squad who are out of contract next year and it's really a case of 'Oh f***!'.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:45 am 
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muckygooner wrote:
Interesting that you say that you have wanted him to 'bow out' for his own sake - not once have you suggested he should go for the sake of the club.


Why would I do that? It isn't his call to make. He loves this club through and through and is so invested in it he probably can't see a version of it without him.

muckygooner wrote:
Interesting that he 'shoulders the burden' and portraying him as the he victim (waiting for this proof in his memoirs) while referring to others as 'clowns'. You seem happy to 'abuse' anyone but Wenger


You know why that is; loyalty. Its important to me. Arsene Wenger revolutionised the club; football, personnel, standing, trophies. He is the greatest Arsenal manager of them all, by a distance. I can partition my thoughts about Arsene Wenger's current (non)capability to manage this club from what he has achieved here, and without calling him a c***.

Do you think Kroenke, Gazidis and the rest of them deserve the same pedestal as Wenger? I don't have any cause for loyalty to any of them.

muckygooner wrote:
I get it - he has done a lot for the club. We have been singing his praises on these forums way way back - but isn't it obvious that his arrogance is damaging the club? For the past 5 years despite winning FA cups he hasn't doe a great deal right. Even financially it's all wrong - he has burdened the club with an expensive bloated disjointed squad.


The balance of the team is not right; the signings are not the main problem, the lack of balance is. And if (does he really?) Arsene Wenger, the manager, coach, chief scout is also having to negotiate every single contract/contract renewal, the club needs to look very carefully at how they apportion responsibility. He could do with being more honest with the fans; his reticence to give away information of any dealings/club doings with the fans makes him seem aloof and uncooperative, it makes him a target for media ridicule, and it makes it very easy for everyone else to hide out of the spotlight, unquestioned.

muckygooner wrote:
On the point of the 'abuse' Wenger has faced - he must be a sadist as he has just signed a new contract and gratefully accepts a huge pay increase. All in the face of very obvious dissatisfaction from the fans! He must also approve the behaviour the so called 'clowns' at the club eh - would you work for 'clowns' that have 'hung you out to dry'?


The difference is, Wenger is not a Mourinho or Conte who will call out their superiors at a moment's notice. Whatever his own involvement in the minutiae of the club's doings, it is obvious and clear that he takes too much a share of responsibility. Even during the 'years of austerity' when we were losing players at will, which he had to take on the chin and did so uncomplainingly (just about every other progressive, ambitious manager would have jumped ship at this point, if not earlier).

I don't know why he signed the new contract; maybe he can't let go; maybe he wanted the extra money knowing he wouldn't earn it elsewhere. Either way he should have went, it's not healthy. The fact remains though, he didn't offer himself the contract. Did he have some some force field that bent the will of the board to his desire?

muckygooner wrote:
PS - LG do you mind if I share your post with others outside ArsenalLand?


I'd rather not. I am not interested in being involved in any way at all with the wider shitstorm that surrounds this club.

----
In the end, the situation for me is very simple. I will precis this so there is no misunderatanding; I do not want Arsene Wenger managing Arsenal football club; I have not wanted Arsene Wenger to manage Arsenal football club for 3+ years; the situation at the club is unacceptable, for which Arsene Wenger takes his share of the culpability; the playing situation at the club is unacceptable, for which Arsene Wenger takes a good deal of responsibility; I will not turn against Arsene Wenger; too much of the club's business is defaulted down to 'autocrat' Arsene Wenger in the culture of blame.

The above ^ will likely go unnoticed though, as people pick and choose what they want to see to fit their own wider agendas. Which is why I am bowing out now, because we have done these same debates to death over the last few years.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:51 pm 
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Without a doubt Kroenke is the main reason for Arsenal's downfall. This guy really couldn't give 2 shits about the fans or the club beyond it's bank balance. It's a investment to him and that's it. He has no ambition to win things or spend money on improving the team. NONE!!

My main problem is while Wenger plays the puppet he's facilitating the lie. Even if he's doing it to protect the club (in his eyes). He's actually destroying it. He should've walked away and said he can't take the club any further. That would've spoke volumes and the fans could've redirected their anger at the real enemy. Instead he took the pay rise and stayed on. He decided to facilitate the fraud Stan Kroenke.

If you really love the club sacrifice your job for it, open the fans eyes to what's really going on.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:40 pm 
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In one way I feel Arsene is even more culpable than Stan

1) Team selection tactics preparation signings blah blah bblah... talked to death

2) it's clear Stan is in it to milk the cash cow for short term gain. Stan could argue that he is purely a business man and has no passion for football - what the f@&k is Wengers excuse? Him being some victim/damsel in distress just doesn't wash... he signed a new contract just weeks ago! Wenger is a footballing person - where are his f&@king principles? Right now whether Wenger is 'in bed' with Stan, or if he has become a 'can't see life after Arsenal, or senile old' right now he is the biggest risk to the club.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:33 pm 
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It's pretty simple to me. I think Arsene has only the best of intentions and is an honourable man, but he has become for whatever reason incompetent and incapable of improving the club or even stopping it from declining. Therefore I now think he should leave, but I have no time or manners to spare for anyone who goes on about how Arsene is in it for the money or whatever. I just don't see how it's relevant - the only thing that ever mattered is, is keeping Wenger good for the club? I believed yes, and that had nothing to do with 'rewarding him for past services' - but I became ambivalent over the last few years and now I'm firmly in the no. That's all there is to it.

How much of the blame should go to board/players/etc and how much to Wenger is subject of debate, and I'm happy to consider arguments that, say, 95% of it should be Wenger. But it's mean-spirited and small-minded to think of any argument against Kroenke as deliberately 'protecting' Wenger - just as it would be irrational and blind to insist that Wenger would win the CL if only it weren't for that nasty American owner.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:57 pm 
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We move from top 4 to outside top 4 - clubs income goes down, Arsenes income goes up. He is not in it for the money? I guess he is here for the love of the club - that's why he has worked so hard to make this (and other transfer windows) a real success!

Funny that there was a view at the end of last season that players were waiting for Wenger to sign before committing their future. Looking at it now they were waiting for him to leave! We must be the only club where we lose he dressing room and we lose the players!

Never mind. If a large contingent of Arsenal fans making themselves clear that he is not wanted can't stop him helping himself to a pay hike and contract extension nothing will.


Last edited by muckygooner on Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:00 pm 
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muckygooner wrote:
We move from top 4 to outside top 4 - clubs income goes down, Arsenes income goes up. He is not in it for the money? I guess he is here for the love of the club - that's why he has worked so hard to make this (and other transfer windows) a real success!


Would you therefore have a problem with the club paying Sanchez, Ozil, Chamberlain and whomever else more for their services?


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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:03 pm 
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LoneGunner wrote:
muckygooner wrote:
We move from top 4 to outside top 4 - clubs income goes down, Arsenes income goes up. He is not in it for the money? I guess he is here for the love of the club - that's why he has worked so hard to make this (and other transfer windows) a real success!


Would you therefore have a problem with the club paying Sanchez, Ozil, Chamberlain and whomever else more for their services?


My geordie friend... they're prepared to take a pay cut to get out of this toxic club! Was it Giroud (who signed) said that winning is NOT the most thing?


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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:08 pm 
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I don't see Alexis Sanchez or Mesut Ozil taking a pay cut.

Nor has Oxlade-Chamberlain, if his rate of pay is assessed against what he was earning at Arsenal. And if it's assessed against what was allegedly offered to him to stay, then he has taken that same 'pay cut' to not join the champions of England.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Yeah, Arsene Wenger must hate the club, he's cackling to his sleep each night counting the money while deliberately sabotaging transfers. Instead of, you know, just being a guy who loves the club but is increasingly blind to his own incompetence. How believable.

Look, literally every single one of us is pissed with the club and the manager and the state of affairs. The difference is do you start caring more about being angry at them so you accept every negative thing you hear about them and connect it into a big theory about how evil they are - or do you stop, take a breath, and focus on the key facts: this is about a football club that is shite at playing football, a major part of which is down to a manager that is increasingly shite at managing?


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 Post subject: Re: 2017-18 Squad Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:37 pm 
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Couldn't find a player thread so as it affects the squad, Lucas Perez has gone back to Deportivo on loan. No idea if that involves a fee or option to buy. Anyone?

Edit: And Joel Campbell on loan to Real Betis


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