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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:21 am 
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Genuinely don't know what view I have or should have on that one. Technology has passed me by a little bit; I didn't get an Ipod until 2010, so things like this or the Napster issue aren't something I truly get.

Like you, and I suspect shedloads of others, I've taken advantage of the way things are. If a friend hadn't joined our school in Y10 and brought all his tapes along one day, I'd never have got into Metallica. My stereo was able to copy cassette to cassette (as was everyone else's which just encourages copying!) so I had a free copy of my own. I then encouraged a friend to listen to it; he liked it so much, he made a copy of his own - 3 copies of the Black album in existence with only 1 of them paid for.

On the other hand, when my 'Fear of the Dark' tape got chewed up, no one from Iron Maiden or HMV said that I could have the CD version for free as I'd already bought it once. The local church hall of all places, used to have a CD fayre once a month; I got 'Black Metal' by Venom, 'Skid Row' and a tape which had one side I've forgotten, with live versions of 'Phantom Lord' and 'Seek and Destroy' on the other side, for less than a tenner.

So I don't know what to think; we all know that paying £10 for pop albums when the artists will release at least 3 greatest hits albums in a decade, every track of which you already own, is a rip off. Let the law makers worry about it and if you have a genuine deep love of all music, as you both obviously have, go for it.

Edit: Should the above contain potentially illegal activity, it's all a lie - I am desperate to fit in :thumbup:


Last edited by Emperor on Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:47 pm 
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I was just curious what the prevailing view is.

When I first began to seriously listen to music, say late teens, I used those bastions of illegality, LimeWire and Kazaa, with regularity. Through those I found many artists I would never have, although eventually stopped due to the damage the software would do to a PC.

Only in recent years have I started using YouTube as my go-to source to discover new music, and using a converter to create mp3s. I have acquired a hell of a lot of music this way, but for every ten artists I have taken music from, I have probably paid back into three or four of those buying the official albums, back catalogues etc. Bandcamp has recently fired my interest in finding new artists and cheap music.

I've never been concerned pilfering music, because I know I pay my dues back into artists I truly like. It's the artists I feel sorry for; I follow several bands on Facebook and know how hard they work to make £$ and the creative ways they have to fund new albums. I feel not one ounce of sympathy for the big companies though, as they artificially inflated the price of music for years, not to mention the shoddy 'best of' packages that are released with abandon. The rapid advent of technology caught the industry with its pants down.

I only pose the question as I came by that site quite by chance last night, after listening to Skid Row on YouTube and picking up most of their back catalogue via a download link the user had posted, and then searching for Ratt albums. The site purports to be legal, has the licences (apparently) and has so much music on there that I'm inclined to think it would have been shut down by now, if illegal. Don't know though, I've never come across (or searched for) a site like it.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:01 pm 
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I took a punt on the website in the end, signing up with EUR50 and getting a 50% bonus; 750 tracks in all. Happy to report that all is as advertised. So far I've snagged these full albums:

Cold Sweat - Cold Sweat
Great White - Shot In The Dark
Helmet - Meantime
Helmet - Betty
Jerry Cantrell - Degradation Trip: Vols 1 and 2
Judas Priest - Stained Class
Judas Priest - Hell Bent For Leather
Little Richard - Here's Little Richard
Mammal - The Majority
Mammal - Vol 1: The Aural Underground
Melvins - Houdini
Motley Crue - Dr. Feelgood
Motley Crue - Too Fast For Love
Motley Crue - Shout At The Devil
Mount Carmel - Real Women
Pearl Jam - Lightning Bolt
Placebo - Battle For The Sun
Placebo - Loud Like Love
Rainbow - Rising
Rainbow - Rainbow
Ratt - Invasion Of Your Privacy
Ratt - Out Of The Cellar
Ruby The Hatchet - Valley Of The Snake
Rush - Rush
Scorpions - Box of Scorpions (best of)
Scorpion Child - Acid Roulette
Skin Yard - 1000 Smiling Knuckles
Soundgarden - Louder Than Love
Soundgarden - King Animal
Tad - Inhaler
Tad - 8-Way Santa
Tesla - Mechanical Resonance
Tesla - The Great Radio Controversy
Tony Iommi - Fused
Tony Iommi - The 1996 Dep Sessions
Tony Iommi - Iommi
Tool - Opiate
W.A.S.P - Golgotha
W.A.S.P - The Crimson Idol
Warlock - Burning The Witches
Warlock - Hellbound
Warlock - True As Steel
Winger - Pull

That is a shedload of music for the equivalent of £30. I'm still sitting with about EUR25 left, so if you guys have any suggestions then feel free to throw them out!

Skid Row's eponymous album has been getting the heaviest rotation, whilst also giving plenty of love to the Scorpions' best of collection.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:34 am 
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Looks a hell of a deal! :thumbup:

My knowledge isn't even close to expansive, but I would have a look at:

'The Sound of Madness' (Shinedown)
'Laughing on Judgement Day' (Thunder)
'Live in the Raw' (WASP: Blackie's vocals are so nailed on it's hard to tell he isn't miming)
'B-Side Ourselves' (Skid Row)
'Sven Gali' (Sven Gali)
'Earth Vs The Wildhearts' (The Wildhearts)
'Powertrippin' (The Almighty)
'Troublegum' (Therapy)

Don't know if you're into Black Metal, but would highly recommend 'In the Nightside Eclipse' by Emperor which is still the best black metal album I have ever heard and also on the BM spectrum but worlds apart in terms of style, 'Hvis Lysett Tar Oss' by Burzum. I got that on limited edition vinyl as one of my mates had a record player. From the first chord, to walking home in the dark with the album in my rucksack, it was one of the weirdest experiences of my life.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:07 am 
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LoneGunner wrote:

That might give rise to another future list; most overrated bands/artists. :lol:


And here it is! I'm going to wait and see what you guys think, as I would like to see how you differentiate between overrated and shite :thumbup:

TOP 5 MOST OVERRATED BANDS/ARTISTS (tbc)


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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:49 am 
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Emperor wrote:
TOP 5 MOST OVERRATED BANDS/ARTISTS (tbc)


I'll take this on! And I'll go with bands rather than individual artists.

1. The Beatles
Everyone loves the Beatles don't they? Nope. Fuck me, I hate their music, I hate their solo projects. I'd struggle to name more than one individual song I like. John Lennon's 'Imagine' is roundly nominated as one of the great songs of the 20th century; I hate that too, easily in my bottom five. We might distinguish, here, between abject dislike and the term overrated, but I have to nominate them here as I just can't hack them.

2. U2
The successor to the Beatles. Hate their music, hate the pretentiousness of Bono. Oh and the time they released a free album into the accounts of everyone who had ITunes downloaded in a majestic act of 'altruism'? W*nkers!! Uninspired pop-rock for lovesick mums.

3. Nirvana
Further to previous; I don't mind Nirvana sonically. Not my favourite grunge band by any stretch and I wouldn't willingly buy an album, but they released some decent tunes. However, they are routinely rated as the forefathers of the grunge movement, the seminal band, Kurt Cobain the seminal vocalist. Just no. They didn't create or capture the zeitgeist, they just helped to commercialise it. Nirvana didn't come into existence until '87, released Bleach in '89. By Nirvana's inception, you could look at what Mark Arm and the members of Green River (some of which would later found Pearl Jam) had been doing for a couple of years, maybe the Melvins too, and others. And that's fine; every band is influenced by others. But Nirvana have this mantle as pioneers and it is both unjustified and does not give credit to countless other bands following the same path contemporaneously. Throw in the fact that there were better vocalists and musicians doing the rounds, Nirvana are overrated. And MTV and the like have helped to cement that overrating; Nirvana get airtime.

4. Coldplay
Again, this could simply be my personal preference; akin to U2, I don't like their music and I don't like their pretentiousness. But to that is the longtime feeling that they are just a slightly radio-friendlier version of Radiohead. And I don't like Radiohead.

5. The Sex Pistols
After hating on three bands, I wanted to end on a band that I just think are overrated, personal feeling aside. I toyed with the idea of Metallica, but most are of the opinion they released some great music and then have been poor for 20+ years. I toyed with the idea of Black Sabbath, but that would be to denigrate the work of Tony Iommi because I don't like Ozzy Osbourne and he is the most recognisable vocalist of Sabbath. So I settled on The Sex Pistols. Now this is a band who helped to create a zeitgeist and they have a sort of role in infamy rather than outright appreciation. But it would be fair to say that their back catalogue of one studio album does not bear the weight of their reputation. Two excellent songs, a couple of other reasonable ones. Lydon's vocals capture the music perfectly albeit not a strong vocalist, and Sid Vicious couldn't play a lick.

That is my opening shot, subject to change. Radiohead are very, very fortunate to escape this list.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:07 am 
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I'm going to go with both bands and artists and will try to include acts I feel I have either given a fair go to, or those whose work I have had to sit through in someone's car etc. Otherwise I could stick entire genres into the list (maybe another time though? :D )

1. Prince

Whether it's as a symbol or AFKAP, I just don't get this one. I don't know whether it's the falsetto vocals or just the lack of a catchy tune, but I was never a fan.

2. David Bowie

Based on hearing his work long after it came out, but again, I don't really like it. I don't rate his vocals that highly which makes the music hard to listen to. Joe Elliott's cover of 'Ziggy Stardust' is way better than the original, in my opinion.

3. Blur

Again it's the vocals. Any slightly catchy riff is immediately negated by the annoyingly phrased lyrics and shouting across the playground delivery.

4. Red Hot Chili Peppers

Having a good chorus doesn't make up for a rather shit verse.

5. M People

This literally took over an hour! I racked my brains but couldn't think of artists I'd given a 2nd chance to after I'd hated the first thing they did. I've (lazily in the end) gone for M People as I can't hear anything they do without thinking the singer has a mouthful of rice pudding (or that KFC call centre advert).

So many other mentions; Lily Allen would be right in there but I've only heard two shit songs and one shit apology, Robbie Williams for being crap live, half of Slipknot is unlistenable but some of it is beautiful. If I'd heard more of Lady Gaga, Ed Sheeran and The Rolling Stones, they could have been candidates too. I couldn't put Metallica in, although if I'd got into them at 'Reload' I may have been swayed. I've only heard one Libertines track but suspect they would have been up there in the shite stakes.

Not sure how 'rated' they are now but as an aside, having read reviews which stated they were back to their best etc, I would be tempted to add Machine Head, as nothing they have released has come close to 'Burn My Eyes' in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:26 am 
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I haven't heard enough of Bowie's material to comment, but the few songs I have heard haven't grabbed me. I feel much the same way about Prince; 'Gold' is an awesome song, and when I recently acquired it I also played through the Gold Experience album and didn't rate much else.

Three years ago the Chilis would have been right up on my list. As a teen, it was the 'Californication' era and that was my view of the band. However, a colleague requested I listen to the Blood Sugar Sex Magik album and that reshaped my view. Some great tunes on that album and a lovely dose of funk, and I slightly forgave them later errors - enough to stay off this list anyway :lol:

Jase, where are ya?

I might have to have a dig at Most Underrated Bands/Artists.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:19 pm 
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1) The Grateful Dead
I’ve never met anyone who isn’t into copious amounts of weed that is a fan.

2) Devo
I don’t even know what this is supposed to be. Somehow they are given credit for initiating the change to New Wave and Alternative. If I could wipe a band from existence this would be it.

3) James Taylor
I’ve seen fire and I’ve seen rain too, it’s not that impressive. He’s supposed to be some sort of songwriter folk hero, but I have a hard time seeing it.

4) David Bowie
Always found him strange and creepy, and somewhat bewildered that he was famous. Wrote him off as something left over from the seventies, like PCP and LSD, which may explain some of his popularity.

5) Bob Dylan
Great talent as a songwriter, terrible performance artist. Inaudible for the last 40 years.


Dis-Honorable Mentions
U2 and Prince – agreed.
Smashing Pumpkins
Beyonce
REM
:tut: Milli Vannilli – seriously, they won a Grammy for lip syncing. I always knew they were lip syncing when they performed. I remember remarking just that more than once, but I thought it was just for the show like a lot of artists do nowadays while dancing around so much. Very funny when they were found out as frauds though. I had no idea how right I was. Special case I know, but they fooled a lot of people.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:45 am 
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Ahh, Milli Vanilli - not only did they not sing live, they didn't even sing the tracks they were miming to! :lol:

Are you guys old enough to remember Jive Bunny and The Mastermixers? I seem to recall them having a series of No 1s in a few months and then totally disappearing, a little like Vanilla Ice.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Emperor wrote:
Are you guys old enough to remember Jive Bunny and The Mastermixers? I


I remembered the name vaguely and associated it with some old school 60's rock and roll. Having googled it, I realise that's what it was; an early 90s act remixing old Chubby Checker, Elvis tunes etc.

Jase wrote:
Smashing Pumpkins


I have a chunk of their back catalogue, but I can understand this. It doesn't help that Billy Corgan is a massive bonehead either, and an irritating vocalist.

Throwing two more into the 'Overrated' fire.

Tool
I say this as a Tool fan. However, they are held up in exalted status in underground music, yet for me they are a band who produce brilliant singles but poor albums. There are too many experimental nuggets within a Tool album for me to ever to want to listen right through it.

Muse
Biggest band in the world apparently. They have also produced some brilliant tunes, but some of their material is over-produced, over-sung and firmly crossing the border of pretentious.

--------

Having a shot at MOST UNDERRATED BAND/ARTISTS:

1. The Mayan Factor
For me, the definition of underrated. Not that I move in circles where many of my friends are music aficionados (sadly), but I don't know a single person who has ever heard of this band. Never seen/heard them get airtime, few vids on Youtube. Three albums, one released posthumously after the 2011 death of the lead singer, Ray Schuler. Of the first two, '44' would be in my all-time top 10 albums and 'In Lake Ch' would be very close. Some of their tunes are extraordinary and the lead was an incredible vocalist. A bit of a Layne Staley for prog-rock, mired in death and depression.

2. Jeff Healey/The Jeff Healey Band
Perhaps as well known for playing 'Cody' in the Patrick Swayze film, Roadhouse. What he achieved as a guitarist despite being blind deserves respect. And he was an accomplished vocalist too. Maybe he earned respect in his heyday, before my time, but I've never so much as heard his name mentioned.

3. Placebo
They are rated sure enough, but I never really felt they earned the respect they deserved for what is an extensive and accomplished back catalogue. Arguably the most consistent band of the last two decades to my taste. And despite their occasional shifts in focus, from the glam-punk rock of their eponymous debut, through to the introspective 'Meds', Brian Molko's vocals always seem to tie a thread through their work. A song from 2013's 'Loud Like Love' could easily have been on the 1996 debut. Also not that often a band releases their best work a decade into their cycle, which is reflected in 'Meds' in my opinion.

4. Chevelle
Maybe this is just a UK-thing, as Chevelle aren't well-known over here. Very consistent band over nearly two decades, producing slab after slab of modern hard-rock. Another band who's best work, 'La Gargola', arguably came a good 15 years into their career.

5. W.A.S.P
This could be a trick of time, as they are well before mine, and a result of shifting music focus and hair rock going out of fashion. WASP are another of those bands, though, that never seem to come up in any discussion of classic bands from a previous era. I have six of their albums now and each hit the spot. And they/Blackie are still releasing quality material three decades after they were founded, music that puts most contemporary bands to shame.

Notable shouts:
Portishead - fell victim to trip-hop's demise. 'Dummy' is a majestic album.
Kobra and the Lotus - US operatic-tinged metal band that are still playing small venues/pubs in the UK four albums in. These guys are grafters.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:08 am 
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Will give my list some thought. Agree with comments on Muse; I've been increasingly disappointed with latest releases. Matt Bellamy - you have a hell of a voice. I get it, the world and his dog gets it, so not very vocal line needs to sound like an X Factor wannabe or someone singing the USA national anthem and trying to 'make it their own.'


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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:46 pm 
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My five Overrated bands:

1) KISS - I despise this band and everything they stand for and no amount of Gene Simmons shooting cock rockets out of his crotch can convince me that they are in anyway tolerable or warrant watching them live. Yet they are frequently found in various hall of fames and best categories. Not for me.

2) Red Hot Chilli Peppers - Completely agree with Emperor's assessment.

3) Coldplay - Almost despise them as much as KISS. What works in their favour is that Coldplay actually know their not very good but know what sells so keep churning it out, much to my disillusionment.

4) The Smiths - I don't get it. It's probably more because the other half loves them and I want to play Devil's Advocate but I have tried and tried with them and just don't like them. Occasionally a Johnny Marr riff resonates but then Morrisey opens his mouth...

5) Foo Fighters - Now the Foo Fighters are a good band, a very good band and I like them. But in the absence of truly great current bands I think Foo Fighters have been elevated to a greatness level I don't believe they deserve to be at.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:02 am 
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Most Underrated Bands/Artists.

1. Paul Young

The very first musical artist I ever became a fan of after hearing 'Every Time You Go Away' on an early evening show; possibly Calendar, but can't be sure. I've put him here as even though he was given solo duties in the original Band Aid, he only ever had one Number 1 in the UK. When that ties with Mr Blobby, there's something wrong. His live version of the above song at Live Aid shows his excellent voice, although it's horrible (for me) to watch him reach every note perfectly with the obvious effort that would cause him serious throat problems later on.

2. WASP

They seem to be regarded as a bit of a joke. I watched some bald guy with a little pony tail discuss the line up at Donington in '92. He almost dismissed WASP and he's not the first musical journo I've seen do that. Some awesome tracks, incredibly tight live in the early days and not many vocalists have the range of Blackie Lawless.

3. Volbeat

I very rarely buy Metal Hammer or Kerrang these days so if this band is receiving plenty of hype etc then forgive me. I watch Kerrang and Scuzz fairly regularly and see bands like Paramore or Blink 182 all the time. Rarely do I see Volbeat (although the other night there was an hour long Volbeat vs Metallica). I've never heard a bad song of theirs and have heard several very good to excellent tracks.

4. Bryan Adams

I'm putting him in, with the benefit of two of his albums, one of which is his greatest hits/best of, because I suspect that he is known mainly for one song (have a guess) and then 'Summer of 69' and there is a lot more to him than that, including the two collaborations of 'Don't Give Up' with Chicane and 'When You're Gone' with the only talented Spice Girl.

5. Type O Negative

Pete Steele is sadly no longer with us but the band left me with some memorable tunes. 'Black No 1' was one of the most unique songs I had heard when I was just getting into rock/metal and I was lucky enough to find 'Wolf Moon' on one of the (often shite) free CDs with a mag before I heard much more of their work.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 5
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:49 am 
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I need to thank Jase for the next two categories, much obliged :thumbup:

First one is: Best TV Series with whichever criteria you like, be it aimed at children, adults, any genre or from any country.

I'll kick it off:

1 The Incredible Hulk.

One of two programmes I never wanted to miss during my childhood and the love remained through to now, thanks to boxsets. Poignant, story based and sequential enough without becoming angsty and fluffy (I'm looking at you, Buffy).

2 The A Team.

The other of the two. Way ahead of its time, didn't need swearing and I never cared that after flipping a car five times, the baddies would always crawl out unharmed. Implausible, spectacular and feel-good, the closest thing that TV drama could come to the wacky world of 1980s professional wrestling. Watching it again on Spike right now :thumbup:

3 Lethal Weapon.

Really enjoyed this one and didn't expect to given the time lapse between the first film and this series. Riggs and Murtaugh had to be perfectly cast and it worked for me. So did the symmetry of having Roger being a little vulnerable due this time to his heart rather than just being 'too old for this shit.'

4 A Touch of Frost.

Not keen on very last episode as I'm not a big fan of someone being killed off in the final show, but other than that, some great episodes with one of our finest actors ever in the lead role. I really enjoyed the original books too as well as the newer prequels.

5 New Tricks.

Although by the end the original cast had gone, the standard of acting and storyline remained high. The series had a spine of great British actors, even though someone allowed Dennis Waterman another bash at a theme tune and there was comedy as well as action and angst. I would have been happy to see another series before it ended, even though the conclusion was satisfactorily neat.

Honourable mentions: Knight Rider, Fall Guy and Streethawk from childhood, Baywatch from adolescence ('nuff said), Smallville, where I got a little lost by the TK Maxx range of Kryptonite, early X-Files where I didn't have to think too much about Mulder's sister, CHiPS which I know I loved but just can't remember, Diff'rent Strokes and Worzel Gummidge. I'm also loving Lucifer at the moment but am only a few shows in.

Had I chosen reality based shows, The Krypton Factor and the first few series of Gladiators would be right up there.


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