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 Post subject: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:49 am 
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My Fellow Gooners...

There is real possibility that we are going to have to close Arsenal-Land.co.uk down!

There are new rules coming into place at the end of May called GDPR, they deal with personal information and how it is stored - are far reaching and cover websites. The fines are huge and no longer cover just the website owners, but also the website suppliers. :headbang:

The long and the short of it, is that Arsenal-Land.co.uk is far from being able to comply with GDPR, especially the forum.

We are going have to do something, quickly and dramatically - the amount of coding required to get the current site anywhere near to GDPR compliant is spectacular.

I took on the development of the site when I was a youngster, since then my company has flourished (this is why there have been no updates to the code for quite some time) and we can't afford to have the possibility of being slammed by the ICO for a project website.

Darren and I have chatted and are looking for options; we are open to suggestions, but here are some:

1) We close the site and call in a day
2) We close the site and move everything to the dreaded Facebook* and let them deal with GDPR
3) We keep parts of the site and move the forum to the dreaded Facebook* and let them deal with GDPR
4) (And this is my fav) We change the site to more like a blog with a few of the current more verbose members contributing, and then having a Facebook* discussion thread on the bottom of the article

* I do know that lots of members have previously objected to the use of Facebook

I personally would like to keep the site running in some form, especially with the changes coming to the club, but something needs to be done, and fast.

So please post here or email me at toby@thedoghousesolution.com if you have any ideas.

Cheers
Toby



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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:00 pm 
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It would be ideal to try and keep the forum. My question is:

* Does PhpBB (Forum backend software) have any addtional modules which allow the forum to be GDPR compliant?

* Are there any other free forum software modules which meet GDPR compliance.

It would be a shame to have to close the forum and I dont use facebook (can't stand it :lol: :lol: ).


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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:15 pm 
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I don't know much about these regulations, but my employer is currently reviewing along the same lines. I thought the main gist is that you have to source consent from a user to retain their data.

Is there really no way around that without a major overhaul?


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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:25 pm 
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I don't really understand the technical stuff, sorry. How are other forums like The Gooner, Goonersworld etc getting round it?

Facebook and Twatter are non-starters for me but only an opinion. I'd be sad to see the forum go even though there's only a handful of contributors as it's always had interesting, well written and thoughtful posts with an expected standard of class and respect for each other.


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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Hi,

GDPR is a total headache, so in answer to the questions:

1) It is only a fraction about consent, it is also about data storage (which is a total mindf@ck - google "gdpr pseudonymisation" and you'll see), the processing, the right to be forgotten, the right to see collect data etc

2) major overhaul required as the code is so very old and as a "data processor" we need full control over the code, which we do not and my company would be liable. :-( AL is the most attacked and hacked site on our servers, we should have killed it off ages ago, as we have to check that no dodgy code has been installed (again)

3) Facebook is not ideal (I use it, but only for a few private groups nowadays)

4) Other forums are prob making money and are monitored much more that AL so have more time to invest. Even the most basic GDPR change (https) would cost money.

GDPR seems a little like overkill to me, I have 6 weeks of updating websites to fulfill the criteria set out, which are really there to stop people nicking and misusing your data which we do not and will not do. I know it's a crap situation, if anyone can come up with a solution, then let me know.


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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:54 pm 
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I only use the forum portion of Arsenal-Land and I'm unwilling to join facebook, so it looks like the end for me.


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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:04 pm 
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We've become a pretty small and cosy group over the years, and I think moving to Facebook or a different format would probably kill the community by bleeding. I certainly am a huge fan of the forum format and really hate how conversations change on FB or blogs.

I understand the logistical complications though. So it wouldn't work even if we just closed shop, set up another website with just a stock phpBB forum, and required only an email address for people to sign up?

It's ironic that in trying to better regulate personal data, small eclectic places like us might have to move to Facebook of all places!

(If we must shut down, it seems fitting that it is now, of all times...)


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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:15 pm 
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I totally agree with these points: small websites (and I deal with many) are all having to change because of the abuse of data by the "big boys".

I honestly have woken up on holiday in with the GDPR fear.

The idea of restarting a forum in a different format could be something, but, as you say, much of this type of debate has been moved to Facebook etc. Once private and secret groups become a thing, forum memberships fell across the board as you can run it all from there, so many people didn't see the point.

Cheers
T


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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:46 am 
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I only use the forum, I cannot remember the last time I visited another part of the site. I do not and am not planning to use Facebook. I also don't think that this community, as small as it is, will survive on Facebook.

It's a shame that this site is coming to an end, but it has long been coming, with or without GDPR.

We could collectively migrate to one of the bigger forums? Does anybody have an idea what the most attractive destination would be?


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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:08 pm 
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There is a halfway house (I have been looking at more options): we could create a site which has contributors adding comment and then users could use Disqus to comment on it? This does not require Facebook action/accounts.

It would require people to start threads in a different way - either email over a report, or I could create a system with access to various users who could then start threads.

On the other side of the coin and probably why usage is dropping, it might be useful to add some social media pages for the site for all those who are on FB etc.


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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:17 pm 
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I'm such a Luddite - what the heck is Disqus?

Cheers for the thought and effort you're putting in, Toby.

Jules wrote:
We could collectively migrate to one of the bigger forums? Does anybody have an idea what the most attractive destination would be?


I joined Goonersworld when I was pissed off with the admin here and banned at my own request; I tried my login last night and it still works (although I'm in single digit posts after 8 years!) but the general standard of comment and debate isn't a patch on here.


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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:35 pm 
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Soz, busy :-)

Disqus is a commenting third party gizmo for adding comments to blogs - TBH not 100% sure how it works - https://disqus.com/

Ta


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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:52 pm 
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Give that there are millions of phpBB forums and this one is just a minnow should we really be worried.

There's a BBC article here
"GDPR: Are you ready for the EU's huge data privacy shake-up?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43657546

which includes this section.

-------------------------------------------------
Policing the law

The watchdog responsible for all this in the UK will be information commissioner Elizabeth Denham.

"We will have more powers to stop companies processing data, but we only take action where there has been serious and sustained harm to individuals," she explained.

"What this new fining power gives us is the ability to go after larger, global and sometimes multi-national companies where the old £500,000 fine would just be pocket change."
-------------------------------------------------


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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:46 pm 
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On a company and personal level the fines would come to me, so you will understand why I have to worry. :(

From a techy POV, phpBB as an application is far from ideal and well outside my knowledge base (we deal with high spec Windows developments and not open-source) - my hands are pretty much tied on what I can do with regards to being the host, the data processor and the data controller.

It is pretty uncomfortable for me at the moment - GDPR is a very big stick, aimed at very big companies, but the type of work we do is caught in the crossfire, and my company cannot afford to take the risks as this could/would affect my clients. (GDPR does allow a little bit of "I'm working on it...", but as the code is not one we can directly modify and confirm data security, there isn't enough wiggle room)

Keep the ideas coming, I am still hunting.


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 Post subject: Re: GDPR - IS ARSENAL LAND CLOSING DOWN?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:00 pm 
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This doesn't help, but I have reading phpBB's own threads on GDPR.

They are implying they are covered as when you sign up you have to consent, but reading on, they are not really covering themselves in glory as they are missing many key points - also many accounts have not be used for a while, so would require "re-consent".

They claim that as "no personal information is ever stored" then "what are you worrying about", however, as I have direct access to the database I can see all the data and this simply isn't the case that they are doing enough to cover my/their ass.

They do also say that it's on the site owner and not phpBB to make sure it's all GDPR compliant #Helpful

Open-source systems are more easy to hack - that's the risk you take - once someone finds a weakness, then can exploit many times - how we an admin know of a breach as they are (by law) required to report this to the ICO.

It is such a ball ache!

I will keep digging, but it looks like change is still on the cards.


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